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May 29, 2005

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» The Carnival Of Education: Week 17 from The Education Wonks
Welcome to the seventeenth edition of The Carnival Of Education. Here we have assembled a variety of interesting and informative posts from around the EduSphere that have been submitted by various authors and readers. As with other editions, those en... [Read More]

» Second Languages from Bruno & The Professor
Although I think it's absurd to choose your child's second language courses based on GDP, I sort of agree withthe idea that, in the 21st Century, it's silly for schools to continue to offer Spanish, French, and Latin in their... [Read More]

» Let's hate French. from The Creative Guy

Here's something new and exciting: a parent who treats children like little adults, combined with some good old-fashioned Americanocentrism, Mariann forwarded a post to me from a blog I've never heard of, Parent Pundit, in which the au... [Read More]

Comments

Clarence Fisher

Interesting research on the facts of gdp, etc. I teach in the Canadian province of Manitoba and our kids have to take French. Being Canadian, where French is one of the founding languages of our country, it makes more sense taking this language; but you are correct and I tell my gade 8 students all the time that they need to be studying Chinese if they want to get ahead in the global economy.

Tim

My mother wanted me to take Spanish when I was in school, but I knuckleheadedly refused. I thought about taking German because some of my friends were taking it, but I wound up studying Japanese.

I am so glad I took Japanese instead of German, French or Latin - my other choices besides Spanish. Idealy, I wish I would have studied Spanish, but Japanese was a good second choice. I may not be anywhere near fluent, but I understand bits and pieces. More importantly though, through learning the language we learned a great deal about the culture, and having some sense of how an Eastern culture (Eastern cultures being, in so many respects, very different from Western cultures) functions has been highly beneficial. Using what I know of Japanese culture has made aspects of other Asian cultures less puzzling.

z

Recent referenda aside, the EU is going to be a big power in the future. Europe is the center of the world and always will be. (Look at the cold war... sure, the USSR and USA actually fought some battles in SE Asia, but the real focus was always on Europe). Europe is a popular tourist destination for Americans and Canadians. Europe, Europe, Europe.

I can easily see justification for Mandarin.. China will certainly be important too. And from a pure theoretical linguistics perspective, an Asian langauge is so different from English that it would just be interesting to learn.

Russian, too.

But Spanish? The ****hole little countries south of the US are hardly going to be world powers. (And Spain itself had its chance in the 1600s). I suppose if you want to talk to your maid or something. But frankly I'd take an Eastern European langauge over Spanish. (The center of Europe is France and Germany now, but it will be moving east.)

Of course, you seem to be under the impression that "education" = "job training", which is an entirely shitty way of looking at schooling, and leads to many problems for students holding this view in college. But still, if you are really for that, then the major European langauges (i.e., not Spanish) or Mandarin or Japanese are probably what you should be pushing your little darling towards. Unless you think your child is going to be a maid or a dishwasher.

(I've seen people call arguments like this "racist", so I'd like to head that off by asking which genetic traits, exactly, lead to speaking Spanish?)

KimJ

I took French in high school, and it was useful for me because I'm a graduate student in mathematics and while French is acceptable for the foreign language requirement, Spanish is not. (The foreign language requirement is so you can read math papers, and math papers are really only published in English, French, German, and Russian.) However, I realize that for the vast majority of students, Spanish is the more logical choice.

I remember my high school eliminating German, Chinese, and probably other languages I'm unaware of just before I entered. My only choices were also French, Spanish, and Latin. Two years later the Foreign Language Department changed its name to the "World Languages Department". I wondered who believes the world consists of the Pyranees and nothing else.

quadrupole

Is it possible that the languages offered have to do with the available pool of language instructors?

I'd suggest that someone qualified to teach Japanese or Chinese will usually find a better work environment and better pay away from the public school system.

Or to put it differently, it is the total irrelavence of French that leads to it's wide availability in the public schools: what else is someone qualified to teach French going to do that is more renumerative?

Peter

"****hole little countries"? "Unless you think your child is going to be a maid or a dishwasher."? Well, Z, you might (*might*) not be a racist, but you are certainly one grade A jerk.

Katherine Prouty

OK, I put asterisks over the vulgarities in the post by z and then put asterisks in Peter's response where he referred to z's post. Adults can figure out what it is, but I don't want filters to filter out this blog.

If this were a forum, with lots of people returning, I would throw out my forum rules which state:

Don't attack the person, attack their arguments, etc.

I'm going to let this one slide for now... But I have taken note. (Putting on my best schoolmarm look.)

Merry Swankster

Learning a foreign language is much more than simply knowing how to speak to someone in their native tongue. Its more than knowing how to get around if one were to visit France, Spain, or China. Learning a foreign language gives insight into ones own language. Many words in English are derivatives of the romance languages as well as others. Its invaluable in extending a childs vocabulary and helps with reading...in English!! Language study gives insight into another culture and most important of all - it furthers the intellectual might of children. Those not understanding the reason for learning a second language probably never learned it themselves so they have no idea about the positives in it.

quadrupole

z

I used a slightly less virulent version of your thinking when I decided to take German instead of Spanish in middle and high school. I looked around and didn't see anything in Spanish that I thought mattered to me (economically, scientifically, etc) and decided it wasn't a very useful choice.

Here's why I was wrong, dead wrong.

First, almost anything economically or scientifically important on the international scale is going to be either done in English or easily available via translation to an English speaker. Learning German to read Zeitschrift fur Physik was a complete waste, because it's now European Journal of Physics C, and it's published in English. Other than the general language benefits pointed out correctly by Merry Swankster, I didn't get much of utility out of German.

Second, Spanish would be VERY useful in my day to day life. You see I *like* being able to interact in a friendly way with the people I deal with day to day, including the janitors and other low level service people I deal with. Increasingly, I can't do this, because they speak Spanish, and not English. It's very hard to put people at ease when they can't understand you.

Lily

The purpose of an education is not to train a child for a specific job--or at least, it shouldn't be.

We can breed a generation of children who are all business-people, moderately successful, and own a white picket fence. Or we can educate our children so that they are aware of other cultures and enjoy learning for learning's sake.

I don't know about you, but I would rather be mildly self-satisfied than successful.

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