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January 25, 2005

Comments

aschoolyardblogger

It is a difficult task for teachers to begin any reform mathematics projects - their own math learning at first is being tested and reformed. One of the key ingredients, in my mind, is support provided through teacher training, but almost and maybe more important is the support of parents. One way to understand a math program like EM is to read through and do the exercises in the curriculum consecutively, openmindedly as a learner, not a an assessor. Play with the manipulatives, perhaps even borrow a teaching guide. These programs are much different, and much more exciting than the way we were taught. They are also very hard to describe. With some study, you might find yourself a great parent contributor to something your children's school is attempting to perfect.

Jane

This whole thing reminds me of the tired old whole language debate. Parents upset because their children cannot read well or spell and educators attacking said parents for not understanding the "entire picture". It seems to me that this style of math program will produce similar results just like the whole language fiasco has (legions of ignorant and undereducated people). It seems that certain educators are "zealots" for this type of program and are blind to any other approach. Parents need to take control over their own childrens' education, as they have the most desire to see to it that their offspring are well educated and literate in all areas. Parents need to become critical consumers of the "educational services" provided by the government and not hesitate to procur services elswhere if need be. Thank goodness for the internet and for bloggers like Parent Pundit!!! I appreciate your efforts.

Claire

Parent Pundit -

I appreciate all of your time and effort in understanding and posting on education issues.

I have to say that I am largely in agreement with you on your approach to education in general and to Everyday Math in particular.

My experience with my daughter in elementary school is that that math teachers - at least in her school and school district - generally 1) don't particularly like math, 2) don't have a degree in math, and 3) find elementary school math HARD. And these are the people teaching our kids. (Sigh!)

I have a Master's in Polymer Chemistry, and Bachelor's in Chemistry, Physics, and Mechanical Engineer. Obviously, I love math. So does my husband, who has his BS/MS in Chemical Engineering. To both of us, math is fun and easy. So, similarly to what you are doing, we are working with our daughter (she's in 3rd grade now) to teach her math using the old-fashioned approach that has worked for many, many years: start from the basics, ensure that you understand and master each concept before moving on to the next, and drill-drill-drill. As a result, our daughter also loves math, AND she is quite good at it. In fact, she can do 5th grade level math, and can do various operations with mixed fractions when even her teacher at school can't.

I am really worried about those kids at her school who don't have parents who are willing and able to put in the time undoing or preempting the touchie-feeling garbage that passes for education in today's schools. As someone with teaching experience myself (I have taught classes and tutored in graduate school, I have taught in-house technical training in engineering and chemistry, I have designed and delivered training to everyone from scientists and corporate executives down to new hires/recent college grads, so I know a little bit about teaching. And I have to say that most of what is coming out of our education schools today is just double-talk gobbledygook. Unfortunately, it is our children who are suffering from all of this well-meaning pap that focuses more on social engineering and avoids anything that resembles accountability for students, teachers, or administrators.

But the absolute worst thing that I see happening in our schools today is the unrelenting drive from teachers and administrators to beat down any kids who are exceptional, for fear that other kids who can't be bothered to put in anything resembling effort won't have their fragile little feelings hurt. Apparently though it's okay to tramp down the feelings of exceptional children and make them feel as if they are doing something wrong by excelling.

Until this attitude changes on the part of our public schools, it's like asking the fox to protect the henhouse.

Becky DeForest

It's depressing to me to read your stories, because I can speak to the truth of them, coming from the other side. I was an elementary teacher for three years. I eventually gave up because I felt like I was being pulled in too many directions, with parents pointing accusing fingers at me no matter what I did. I don't blame them--our educational system is seriously flawed. However, it bothers me sometimes that the focus of the blame for educational failures is cast upon teachers and schools. As teachers, we felt equally put upon by legislators and school boards--bodies who had no educational experience or expertise--telling us how to run our schools. Many of the "failing" programs schools are forced to deal with are, in fact, installed by institutions far removed from the schools themselves. (While some defend this process as a way of holding schools accountable and regulating them like businesses, they are not, nor should they be, treated like businesses: Would you dismiss your lowest-achieving students because they were hurting the bottom line?)

Not surprisingly, there are blind spots created when non-educators make decisions regarding schools. (One might consider it to be along the same lines as a dentist writing new air traffic control regulations.) One such blind spot was the effect created when long-term math programs (such as EM) combined with high-stakes testing (such as No Child Left Behind). My school was on the NCLB warning list for several years and was in danger of losing federal funding, which would have left us in a hole we'd have had a hard time digging out of--staff would have been let go, resources could not have been purchased, and student achievement would have continued to decline. Thus we were motivated to "catch up" as many kids as possible during the course of the school year by teaching as many skills to mastery as we could. Obviously, this runs in direct opposition to EM and could be why so many schools are not having success with it.

Incidentally, I am rather good at math and it was one of my favorite subjects to teach (despite the math program we were given). I created most of my own materials because I was not satisfied with what the school provided. I think, though, that this would be the case with any program--as other readers have commented, no one program can be everything to everybody.

cindy

My daughter fell off the table as soon as EDM was introduced in her school in 2003. In response to my concerns, I was told, "Don't worry about it. We'll spiral back to it and she'll get it next time." Since when does education not concern itself with kids not getting what is being taught?

As an engineer, I find this program very problematic. I don't see how this can possibly open the door to the higher level math our kids are going to need in order to compete in a global economy, for our children. It seems to offer nothing but crutches that work well on simple problems (ironically, the kind you'd see on a timed test) but fall apart with more complicated problems.

Unfortunately, in wealthier districts, which lower districts tend to try and emmulate, this program succeeds becuase parents pick up the pieces. Virtually every parent I know in our old district (my children now attend a charter school that uses a traditional math program) is either sending their child for math tutoring or tutoring them themselves. Not surprisingly, test scores are up and EDM gets the credit which is very wrong.

Sadly, the kids whose parents aren't tutoring them/can't afford tutoring are the ones who lose. There is no one at home to help them. No one to drive them to a new school that uses a sane program. They just lose and no one cares because it appears that most kids are doing fine but no one is recognizing that it's the parents doing the teaching at home.

My daughter fits into the category of needing the rules first then practice to get math (I'm the same way. Maybe she'll grow up to become an engineer like her mother.). I have no doubt staying in this program would have resulted in her being unable to handle algebra when the time came. Fortunately, we found a charter school for her and she's now making up for lost time in a big way. We've gone from nightly cries of "I hate math. I'm Stupid", when dealing with EDM, to her actually liking math and excelling at it.

While the change for her has been good, it has been profound for her sister, who it turns out is mathematically gifted. She has jumped two grade levels in the last year in her new school. While she didn't struggle with EDM like her sister did, EDM had nothing to offer her. I am amazed what has happened with a solid math program that encourages understanding and proficiency.

Cindy
Development Engineer - MChE

cindy

Just wanted to add another comment about the criticism of tying reading to math, you're darned right we shouldn't be requiring literacy for math. You eliminate kids who don't read well but might just be good at math logic that way. We should be expanding the ways our children can succeed not narrowing the path to success.

Sadly, I see this program as just another attempt to keep white privilidged people on top and everyone else down below (I am a white privilidged woman by the way but I can see how this type of education further divides the haves from the have nots). The kids who have parents who can get them the help they need will do fine. The ones who don't, flounder. Just look at this program's history in poorer districts. It doesn't do very well in them. Without the parent element, it can't do well.

Even with parents helping, some kids can't be helped. My daughter thinks like an engineer (the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree). She needs the rules and then to work with the rules to get a feel for them and then she'll probably break a few rules and invent a few of her own, like her mother before her. I find a math program that would be lousy for future engineers laughable. I guess America just doesn't want to compete in a global economy.

Cindy

Stewart Delnevo

My son started EM last year in 4th grade. He started the year testing out at grade level in math. At the end of the year he tested out at second month 4th grade. He basically learned 1 month of math in a year. It was the first year of EM in his school, and my first exposure to it. It's aweful. His teacher was a big proponent of EM, as well as the principal. He got a B in Math after about 5 F's in a row on his last 5 quiz's and testing out below 50% on the state test.

This motivated me to buy about $100 worth of work books, hire a tutor, and he worked his butt off over the summer to catch up. We got the 5/6 Saxon Math curriculum which he does 4 times a week now.

He tested out his first week of 5th grade as a 6 month 5th grader. Like you said, no doubt EM will get credit for this. His teacher emailed me that he is a "whiz".

My son does Saxon Math lessons about 45 minutes 4 days a week after he gets home from school. It is sad he has to give up this free time for a miserable failure of a math curriculum at his school.

MH

I can't believe it on one hand and can on the other! Our family just moved from Maryland where both our elementary aged children were math stars (using traditional math), to New Mexico where they are using this "Everyday Math" curriculum, and my children are failing in math. I'm an Instructional Designer (basically I build educational/training systems) and I can't believe what is being taught. It is so vague that my children are just plain old lost. I've met with teachers and they just state that my kids will have to learn to play catch up, but they don't slow down and teach to the kids that haven't been in the program before. I see myself, having to buy a tutor or another math program online inorder to supplement what Everyday Math isn't teaching my children. I don't want them to go into math overload on a curriculum like this, and then when it comes to college entrance exams, they fail or score very low, because of this program. Is there any help out there that you don't have to pay for via a tutor, for this or will I need to pull my kids out and homeschool them for fear of their academic life being ruined by our move to a new state?

Lori

My daughters school just announced that they are looking into switching from Saxon to Everyday Math. She is in second grade and I am worried. Any statistics or published amunition you could point me towards?

Wendy Penner

I can only agree that this curriculum has been a disaster for my child in the exact same ways as parentpundit described. Her math classroom testing and grades appeared to be very good (As and Bs) until she took standardized tests. She went from scoring advanced in 3rd grade to needs improvement in 5th grade. She used to be strong in math. Now she hates it, has extreme math anxiety.

Let's let kids master basic facts first, then teach the multiple problem solving methods as they approach more complex prolems. It only makes sense that if you don't understand/master your basic math facts, having multiple methods for solving the problem will only confuse you.

If I realized 2 years ago what I know now, I would have done things SO much differently. You COULD blame the teachers but since they were using this cirruculum I have to hold it accountable as well. Especially since there is no textbook, no note taking, and a non-intuitive "reference book".

FYI-google "where's the math" for the Washington state initiative and the NYT article "as math scores lag, a new push for the basics"

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